Posts by Juan Viejo2

31

HOW EXACTLY does god communicate with or direct the GB?

by stuckinarut2 in

we're all familiar with the organisations claims (and have seen the flow diagrams in books and mags) that the gb is "directed by god".

in turn, the local elders are "directed by god".

so, how exactly do they suppose this happens?

Juan Viejo2

In an article that I was privileged to publish based on a letter written to me by an active and serving JW elder, this subject came up. I think his commentary (from an insider looking out) says a lot about the credibility of the Governing Body's claimed attachment to "holy spirit."

"It makes no sense that honest debate about the truth of certain beliefs can be treated as a sin against the Holy Spirit, while the final version of the “truth” is still being fine tuned. After all, the Governing Body VOTES on what new teachings will be published or presented at our assemblies. Does that mean that their debates and votes are also a sin against the Holy Spirit? If the Governing Body is acting under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, shouldn’t all their votes be unanimous? Are those who voted against the majority being influenced by Satan? After the vote is taken, why should that particular teaching ever be changed due to “new light”? Does not the Holy Spirit know what is true and what is not? Or does the Holy Spirit inspire the Governing Body to purposely publish incorrect information from time to time – just to keep us off-kilter? This entire concept of the Governing Body being guided by Holy Spirit is frankly ridiculous and inconceivable.

"I feel that the Watchtower Society is totally wrong by holding this unsupported position. After all, very few of the teachings of Russell and Rutherford are still held to be “truth.” Where was the Holy Spirit prior to Rutherford’s death in 1942, back when almost every Witness was considered to be a member of the Anointed remnant? Who was guiding the leadership of the Watchtower Society back then?"

http://ex-jw.com/elder-shares-honest-opinions

JV

20

Serena Williams

by New day in

jw
friends

i am a big tennis fan and today i watched serena williams win the australian open, one of the four tournaments which make up the pinnacle of achievement in the tennis world, the grand slam.

in her victory speech the first thing she said was that she thanked her god jehovah for the victory.

now i know that rumours have circulated for a long time as to whether she is a baptised witness or not, but she is definitely associated with witnesses .

Juan Viejo2

In case you may have missed this story...

http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/venus-williams-watchtower-hypocrisy-on-display

9

Jehovah's Witnesses, they're big in ...

by Simon in

i just checked out google trends for "jehovah's witnesses" (denomination).

not sure if the link will be to the term but let's try:.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2fm%2f0dtdq.

Juan Viejo2

Type in JW.org.

You will see big spike in mid-2014 and it is now dropping off precipitously since then. Same trend - mostly African countries.

I'm not convinced, however, that Google trends is all that accurate. Many sites that have hundreds of visitors each day barely pop up. I think that the trends thing only measures actual exact word searches, not visitors or views.

JV

10

Inherit the wind

by truthseeker100 in

has anyone seen the movie inherit the wind?

i just got done watching the 1999 remake of the original 1960.. it's about two lawyers arguing in court about the guilt or innocence of a school teacher, teaching evolution.. it's about as pertinent today as it was in 1999 or 1960. it's really a good movie.

.

Juan Viejo2

I forgot to mention that in the late 1980s I was privileged to see a live performance in Dallas, Texas by George C. Scott ("Patton") in a one-man stage play as Clarence Darrow, the famed defense attorney in the Scopes Trial. Scott was an excellent and most accomplished stage and screen actor.

During the play he presented arguments from several of Darrow's trials, focusing on segments where his points were later incorporated into laws or reused by others in criminal cases. The Monkey Trial segment came near the end, as was the case in Darrow's real lifetime. The trial was in 1925 and Darrow died in 1938.

I remember that through the whole performance there was much applause, but the house came to its feet several times during the Scopes segment. The play was very well handled. Since it was a one man play, there was no William Jennings Bryan for Scott to play against, so he injected small additional dialogue, usually not more than 5 or 10 words, that would introduce his response (from the actual court documents). I was amazed that Scott playing back Darrow's actual words actually played better than the dialogue in the original stage play.

For me it was like seeing two geniuses on the stage at one time (Darrow and Scott) in the form of one man. Scott would have been about 60 at the time (Darrow was about 67 at the time of the trial). He wore only clothes that were appropriate to the period and had let his hair get a little wild and long, but he was totally believable in the part. It was truly a treat for me to see that.

So in the play I saw, Scott played the defense attorney, Clarence Darrow.

In the movies remake in 1999 (the same year he died), Scott played Matthew Brady, the politician and evangelical preacher who was the prosecutor..

What an amazing actor. My favorite George C. Scott movie, however, is the rarely seen "Islands in the Stream" (1977) that is based on a novel by Ernest Hemingway. Such a great movie to go unseen and unappreciated.

JV

10

Inherit the wind

by truthseeker100 in

has anyone seen the movie inherit the wind?

i just got done watching the 1999 remake of the original 1960.. it's about two lawyers arguing in court about the guilt or innocence of a school teacher, teaching evolution.. it's about as pertinent today as it was in 1999 or 1960. it's really a good movie.

.

Juan Viejo2

I've been to that Rhea County court house in Dayton, Tennessee. My great-great grandfather lived in Dayton where the trial occurred and he and his second wife are both buried there after they drowned trying to cross the Tennessee River. My great-great grandmother lived and died in Athens, Tennessee, located directly across the River and to the east. While doing my family genealogy I discovered that several of my distant cousins still lived in the area between 1900 and 1920 and at least two had jobs in that court house at the time of the Scopes Trial in 1925.

The 1960 movie was based on a very successful stage play, as was the remake several years later. Very much like "Judgement at Nuremberg" made shortly afterwards, it was a fictional retelling of the original true story. The discussion of creation and Adam and Eve ("So where did Cain find Mrs. Cain? Over in the next county?") is a keeper. If you have never seen the original movie, please make a point to do so - you will not be disappointed. Some of the background story is a little boring and the histrionics of the crowds reminds me of "Music Man," but the court scenes are all show stoppers.

Here in the USA the movie shows at least a couple of times a year on Turner Classic Movie Channel, but it can be found on several streaming services as well.

And yes, the details of the ending were different - as was much about the movie. The whole thing was financed and stage by several major eastern USA newspapers and was financed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). Wikipedia has a ton of information about it and there are several excellent books that cover the trial in grea detail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial

JV

14

Where is Charles Sinutko now?

by moggy lover in

does anyone have any news about charles sinutko, who give the infamous "stay alive till '75" talk?

forty years have passed since then, so is he still alive and still with the watchtower?

anyone heard anything?.

Juan Viejo2

I believe Robert Sinutko was Charles' brother or cousin. Charles (Junior) was last seen still breathing in a WT provided mobile home in Desert Hot Springs, California near Palm Springs. His name is still listed in the White Pages there.

92

GB says, "Our way of worship will soon be altered."

by Separation of Powers in

my mom called me yesterday to ask how i was doing.

i hadn't seen her in a while, so it was nice to hear her voice.

we went through the motions of jw small talk and then she started telling me about her co visit from last week.

Juan Viejo2

Look for fewer Kingdom Halls being built in more remote or underpopulated areas. My insider contacts have been out of touch over the past couple of months and I've been busy, so haven't been paying close attention. This past week I did chat briefly with someone who emailed me and told me that they had some information to share. I have no proof of this person's access to inside information or credibility, but what he shared fits with this thread.

Kingdom Halls built in small rural towns cost the Watchtower about the same as Halls built in big cities - except for land investment. Some of the KHs in remote areas are in relatively poor condition (compared to those found in larger cities) and the cost to rebuild or upgrade to current WT standards would be money that could not be regained in a sale of those properties. In the USA think of remote areas of North Dakota, Montana, Idaho, eastern Washington state - even areas in Arkansas, Mississippi and Louisiana.

The rumor is that the WT will continue to build Assembly Halls in larger towns and cities. For remote areas with less than 50 publishers, they will either rent space in a commercial building (this was a common practice in the 1950s) or have everyone meet at one of the elder's homes (like the old Book Study days).

A series of Public talks and Watchtower Studies will be streamed over the Internet (protected by special logins so that apostates can't sneak in - or the public, for that matter). Interesting that "Public Talks" will be presented, but NOT AVAILABLE to the public!

This concept of "streaming meetings" may be what they mean by "our way of worship will soon be altered."

Notice that they are not saying, "we will be changing our beliefs" or "we will be changing our policies." Instead, the rumors indicate that they will be changing the "...WAY we worship."

So far my friends with inside contacts have been right about 50% of the time. But this rumor sounds very plausible. This will allow the Watchtower to sell off some properties that have been losing value and reinvest only in major cities and growth areas - even though there are no current needs in those areas. It's all about property flips.

It also seems reasonable that Internet streaming will reduce some concerns that local elders might inject some of their own understanding into the local meetings. (This seems to be a small, but growing trend: elders who privately disagree with WT teaching and policy, but want to remain in responsible positions and keep their influence over local JWs.)

Call me crazy, but I think that many of the rumors will play out. All we can do is sit back and be amazed by what the Watchtower will do next.

JV

94

New JW video, song and dance

by Listener in

the current jws do not cease to amaze.

here's their latest video on youtube and straight from bethel.. there is a lot of work involved in this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwou6e5vwbo .

Juan Viejo2

It will never die. I have it on my hard drive now...

94

New JW video, song and dance

by Listener in

the current jws do not cease to amaze.

here's their latest video on youtube and straight from bethel.. there is a lot of work involved in this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwou6e5vwbo .

Juan Viejo2

I wonder which group is really happier...

94

New JW video, song and dance

by Listener in

the current jws do not cease to amaze.

here's their latest video on youtube and straight from bethel.. there is a lot of work involved in this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwou6e5vwbo .

Juan Viejo2

We (well, not me but all the other) apostates did it first and did it better...a long time ago....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpp2SDkgdGo